a Nirav or a Naval? - that is the question
Discover more from Summation and Five Links by Auren Hoffman
a Nirav or a Naval? - that is the question
If you are gonna be a founder, you gotta choose if you are going to be an insider or an outsider.
Sometimes there is a moment in life where you need to decide who you want to be. Well, you are always deciding. Even right until the moment of your last breath, you are still deciding. But I digress…
If you are gonna be a founder, you gotta choose if you are going to be an insider or an outsider. Every insider secretly wants the freedom to be an outsider. Every outsider secretly wants the respectability of being an insider. Some outsiders eventually become insiders. Rarely does an insider ever become an outsider.
There are two archetypes of successful entrepreneurs: the Nirav and the Naval. They are very different and they stem from different strengths and different insecurities. But in some ways they are also very similar. They both play the game of life extremely well, both are winners, both are envied by others. They don’t compete with each other but they are in tension with one another.
While these are archetypes, I picked the names after two very successful people: Nirav Tolia and Naval Ravikant. I’ve known both since the late 1990s. I’m friends with both and I like both. I have deep admiration for both. While I’m more of a “Naval” myself, I don’t want to paint this blog as “Navals are better than Niravs.” They are both super important and both have their strengths … so I am going to spend the next 1800 words talking about these archetypes and why they are both so important for the tech ecosystem.
Introducing the archetypes: the Nirav and the Naval
Nirav Tolia is the co-founder (and, until recently, CEO) of NextDoor (NYSE:KIND). He was previously the CEO of Epinions which merged with Shopping.com (and then sold to eBay).
Disclosure: I was a small investor in Nextdoor and my former company, LiveRamp, subleased space to Nextdoor when it started … so I shared an office with the team for about a year).
Nirav is one of the best looking entrepreneurs – he could be a Hollywood actor. He’s tall, athletic, super-charismatic, a great speaker, and definitely one of the popular kids. He has the perfect smile. His wife Megha is stunning, charming, kind, and always has the right thing to say. If they were in high school, they would be prom king and queen – the couple that everyone wants to be.
Nirav is the consummate insider. He’s even on Shark Tank. He’s clearly part of the elite and represents the expert class and status.
Naval Ravikant is the founder of AngelList and is one of the most famous tech personalities. Naval has over 2 million followers on Twitter and there is even a book written about his philosophy (which I highly recommend).
Disclosure: I am an investor in AngelList – which I think is one of the truly transformational companies -- and Naval is an investor in SafeGraph (where I work).
Naval is a deep thinker, philosopher, loner, historian, reader, nerd, and change maker.
Naval is definitely the outsider. He’s a contrarian and values freedom over being accepted.
And earlier in Naval’s career he was also a co-founder of Epinions with Nirav. Yes, the insider and outsider started together.
Tension between insiders and outsider
There is always tension between the Niravs (insiders) and the Navals (outsiders).
Insiders protect the status quo and change things gradually at the margins. They are the bulwark against revolutions and are extremely important for a functioning society (probably a good thing to have a revolution every few hundred years … probably a bad thing to have a revolution every 5 years).
The average insider has very high status. Most outsiders have low-status. But there are high-status outsiders (the Navals) and those people are the ones that are most likely to change the world. But it can be very lonely being a Naval and often outsiders create lots of enemies.
Outsiders are bomb throwers. They tend to be more disagreeable and they are less likely to fit in – even in a group of other outsiders.
Sometimes outsiders become insiders. But even when they are insiders, they are always a bit uncomfortable on the inside.
was an outsider who became an insider and now he is actually becoming an outsider again.For insiders to stay in power, they need to recruit outsiders to join their guild. George H. W. Bush was the consummate insider. He was born an insider and never wavered from being an insider. Barack Obama was born an outsider but became an insider. Reagan was an outsider who only became an insider when he became President. Nixon was an outsider that always wanted to be an insider.
Yeah, it is complicated.
Some insiders are forces for good, some are forces for bad. Most are somewhere in the middle.
Successful outsiders are more polarized – some are good, some are bad – fewer are in the middle.
A great founder can be an insider (like a Nirav) or an outsider (like a Naval).
A good board member is generally an insider but there are definitely exceptions where outsiders make good board members. Even companies where the founders are outsiders can benefit from insider board members (PayPal had Mike Moritz on their board).
Insiders always know what to say. They are generally much more polite than outsiders. They cultivate the press. In politics, the insiders are always leaking to the press (think of James A. Baker) because they know the inside game.
To really climb the corporate ladder, you most definitely need to be an insider. Insiders anoint other insiders. Non-founder CEOs are almost always insiders (the only time when they are outsiders is when the company is completely broken). Outsiders take things from insiders. Insiders inherit things from from other insiders.
The establishment are insiders. The “experts” are insiders.
Most people are actually outsiders
Most of the people that are not status “winners” are outsiders. And only a small portion of the “winners” are outsiders. There are very few insiders and insiders are much more likely to be those that achieve status (and many of those were born into status).
The outsiders that eventually are status winners usually came from little money. Think
, Naval Ravikant, and Margaret Thatcher.But even the most successful insiders could come from tough circumstances. In the 20th Century, probably the most successful insider was John J. McCloy – he grew up poor to a single mom that was a hairdresser. Being an insider isn’t hereditary (though having successful parents is very helpful) … there are other paths to being anointed an insider like going to the right school (John J. McCloy went to Harvard Law School) or knowing the right people (John J. McCloy ended up tutoring David Rockefeller when he was in high school).
There are many other pairs of people that we can look at. Instead of the blog being called “a Nirav or a Naval?” it could have been called “a Reid or a Peter?” Reid Hoffman and Peter Thiel are very close friends from college and both worked at PayPal together. Both are amazingly successful and influential. Reid is clearly an insider and a leader of the elite. Peter is an outsider who is a leader of the counter-elite. They are an interesting pair because they have immense respect and friendship for one another … yet they represent very different forms of influence and success.
How to become an insider
It is a lot easier to go through life as an insider than an outsider. If you want your children to be successful, you almost always do things to set them up to be insiders. You get them to play an insider sport (like squash, sailing, fencing, horse-riding, tennis, or golf). You get them rise through the present-day educational system. If they go to Harvard, they get their chance to be an insider.
Helicopter parenting is about getting your kid to become a Nirav. It is a much more predictive path to success. It is more assured. It is more likely that your child will be happy.
Being a Naval is MUCH higher beta. They could end up changing the world for the better. They also could blow it up. Or just never be accepted and live less happy.
So most parents play it safe. They encourage their kids to be insiders. Even children of successful outsiders are almost always insiders.
Signaling and the Blue checkmark.
Outsiders sometimes like to continue to signal that they are outsiders. Naval signals outsider status by refusing the blue checkmark on Twitter. Sometimes insiders try to create false signals that they are outsiders. Sometimes outsiders try to create false signals that they are insiders.
Signaling is really important for insiders and outsiders.
The ticker symbol for NextDoor is KIND. That is a Nirav move. That is what an insider would do. “KIND” and unthreatening is exactly what insiders like to portray. George H. W. Bush pushed a “kinder and gentler” Reagan in his 1988 campaign for President.
If AngelList eventually goes public the ticker will be something much more obnoxious and anti-establishment. That’s the Naval move.
AngelList is Naval.
Most all other VCs are Nirav.
Let’s go back to the real Nirav Tolia and Naval Ravikant. While they were cofounders together at Epinions, they eventually had a large lawsuit. Naval (and super-VC Mike Speiser) sued Nirav and the rest of the Epinions board (including Bill Gurley) for allegedly trying to make their shares worthless. There are a lot of opinions about the lawsuit and I’ll let you draw your own conclusions … but the big deal is that it was very risky for Naval to sue. At the time Naval was a rising young venture capitalist at August Capital – a great gig for an insider. He was making good money and he knew he’d had to give it up (likely would get fired) if he launched a lawsuit. If he did not do the lawsuit, he’d stay on the path to being a true insider. The lawsuit was his path to cementing being an outsider. Naval, true to his nature, launched the lawsuit.
Insider Ideology.
In the U.S., most insiders have a common political ideology. Most claim they are center-left. But to be a good insider, you can’t really be ideological. So you pick center-left because it is the safest place to be on the spectrum.
Outsiders can be any political ideology except for center-left. So if you meet someone that is not center-left, they are rarely an insider. Outsiders that really want to be an insider will at least pretend to be center-left. In fact, when you see someone move their ideology to center-left, it usually means they are preparing themselves to become an insider.
Change vs the status quo.
Insiders generally benefit from status quo. They are the elite. They compete viciously and ferociously with other insiders – constantly climbing the ladder. And they are also very adept at creating mutual help networks where people help each other and scratch each other’s back.
Outsiders need change to ascend. They often need a revolution. If change does not happen quick enough, they can be thwarted easily by sharp insiders who are networked together. Successful outsiders (like those in Ayn Rand novels) are deified. But most outsiders are unsuccessful and live their life mad that society has not recognized their talents.
"But the memoirs consistently paint a picture of a willful kid, a loner, stubborn, maybe a little gloomy, and rough around the edges. But in these accounts, he also has a feisty streak. In one story, Napoleon led his fellow students in throwing their mattresses out the window; anything to irritate the monks who were their teachers."
Not everyone fits neatly into being a Nirav or a Naval. Not everyone is pure insider or pure outsider. We’re individuals. We’re grey.
Some people have a personality that leads them to be more insider or more outsider. Asperger’s people are generally more likely to be outsiders. Outsiders still care what other people think of them … but not nearly as much as insiders. Think Elon Musk.
Navals and Niravs can both be super successful.
Both can be super successful.
Well known tech insiders:
Most of the non-founder CEOs of the big tech companies (like Apple, Google, Microsoft).
Most of the super accomplished VCs (almost all the ones that did not start their own firm).
Nirav.
Well known tech outsiders:
Elon Musk, Peter Thiel.
Naval.
Many accomplished people in tech started off as outsiders but have been embraced by insiders. Marc Andreessen is one of these people. These people constantly have both tendencies and have tension.
One of the reasons so many people love the All-In pod is you can hear the four hosts struggling with whether they want to be insiders or outsiders. They all were born outsiders and now straddle the world – not quite Nirav and not quite Naval. When one of them goes too far in one direction, the other three bring them back into tension.
Having success is the fastest way to become an insider. You can get drawn into the orbit and wonderful gatherings at Davos. It is enticing and alluring. Some outsiders escape so they don’t have the temptation. It is easier for Naval to remain a Naval because he hired a CEO to AngelList. One of the reasons that Paul Graham gave up being the CEO of Y Combinator is so he can continue to be a Naval.
So are you a Nirav or a Naval?
If you have gotten this far, you are probably a bit of both. And that’s ok. Having that tension isn’t a bad thing.
But also good to know your true nature. Some people will never be a Nirav, no matter how hard they try. Some people will never be a Naval, no matter how they think of themselves.
Pick the paths that work for you.
Special thank you to
, Mario Moscatiello, and Kelley Wollman for their help and edits.----
If you liked this piece, send it to a friend. If you don’t like it, send it to 8 enemies.
Regardless, please follow me at https://twitter.com/auren
a Nirav or a Naval? - that is the question
was just forward this from a reader:
"In 2009 after the panel had produced its third report, concluding that the risks to the American taxpayers were far greater than Treasury let on, Lawrence H. Summers, then the director of the National Economic Council and a top economic adviser to President Obama, “leaned back in his chair and offered me some advice,” Ms. Warren writes.
"Larry’s tone was in the friendly advice-category. He teed it up this way: I had a choice. I could be an insider or I could be an outsider. Outsiders can say whatever they want. But people on the inside don’t listen to them. Insiders, however, get lots of access and a chance to push their ideas. People — powerful people — listen to what they have to say. But insiders also understand one unbreakable rule: They don’t criticize other insiders."
More: https://fs.blog/are-you-an-outsider/
Enjoyed the article but can't help but think that the "insider" and "outsider" terms are a stretch. The average person would very much consider Naval, Chamath, etc as insiders, albeit anti-establishment (per your diagram).
Perhaps terms are "new guard" vs "old guard" - easier to see the parallels in any industry i.e. Bernie/Trump vs Biden/Newsom, Virgil Abloh vs Brunello Cucinelli, SBF vs Jamie Dimon, etc.